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<h3>
Hal Murray pushed to branch master
at <a href="https://gitlab.com/NTPsec/ntpsec">NTPsec / ntpsec</a>
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<h4>
Commits:
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<strong><a href="https://gitlab.com/NTPsec/ntpsec/commit/666ca1f2e421c81a8b34e59b4cb8b7db37efea29">666ca1f2</a></strong>
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<span>by Hal Murray</span>
<i>at 2019-01-14T11:24:53Z</i>
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<pre class="commit-message" style="white-space: pre-wrap; margin: 0;">More work on what goes between boxes.
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<h4>1 changed file:</h4>
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devel/nts.adoc
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<h4>Changes:</h4>
<li id="609c2c0b1eb27fef7a1a180c7fd078d2c4033c62">
<a href="https://gitlab.com/NTPsec/ntpsec/commit/666ca1f2e421c81a8b34e59b4cb8b7db37efea29#609c2c0b1eb27fef7a1a180c7fd078d2c4033c62"><strong>devel/nts.adoc</strong></a>
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<td class="line_content match " style="padding-left: 0.5em; padding-right: 0.5em; color: rgba(0,0,0,0.3);" bgcolor="#fafafa">@@ -14,20 +14,27 @@ The NTS implementation shall:</td>
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<pre style="margin: 0;"> <span id="LC14" class="line" lang="plaintext"></span>
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<pre style="margin: 0;"> <span id="LC15" class="line" lang="plaintext">* Be interoperable with the other reference implementations in IETF hackathons.</span>
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<pre style="margin: 0;"> <span id="LC16" class="line" lang="plaintext"></span>
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<pre style="margin: 0;">-<span id="LC17" class="line" lang="plaintext">== System Partitioning ==</span>
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<pre style="margin: 0;">+<span id="LC17" class="line" lang="plaintext">== General Ideas ==</span>
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<pre style="margin: 0;">+<span id="LC18" class="line" lang="plaintext"></span>
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<pre style="margin: 0;">+<span id="LC19" class="line" lang="plaintext">The NTP server maintains no per-client state. The NTP client</span>
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<pre style="margin: 0;">+<span id="LC20" class="line" lang="plaintext">stores the state in a cookie which is sent with each request.</span>
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<pre style="margin: 0;">+<span id="LC21" class="line" lang="plaintext">The cookie is provided by the server. The server will decrypt</span>
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<pre style="margin: 0;">+<span id="LC22" class="line" lang="plaintext">it to revover the session keys.</span>
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<pre style="margin: 0;"> <span id="LC23" class="line" lang="plaintext"></span>
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<pre style="margin: 0;">-<span id="LC19" class="line" lang="plaintext"><span class="idiff left right">Hal wrote:</span></span>
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<pre style="margin: 0;">-<span id="LC20" class="line" lang="plaintext"><span class="idiff left right">> My understanding is that there are to be four agents: the client ntpd, a NTS</span></span>
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<pre style="margin: 0;">-<span id="LC21" class="line" lang="plaintext"><span class="idiff left right">> symbiont communicating locally with the client ntpd, the server ntpd, and a</span></span>
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<pre style="margin: 0;">-<span id="LC22" class="line" lang="plaintext"><span class="idiff left right">> symbiont communicating locally with the server ntpd</span>.</span>
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<pre style="margin: 0;">+<span id="LC24" class="line" lang="plaintext"><span class="idiff left right">NTS should not assist tracking of the client. (Consider</span></span>
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<pre style="margin: 0;">+<span id="LC25" class="line" lang="plaintext"><span class="idiff left right">a laptop that moves from home to work to a coffee shop.)</span></span>
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<pre style="margin: 0;">+<span id="LC26" class="line" lang="plaintext"><span class="idiff left right">Thus cookies are only used once. Each NTP response returns</span></span>
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<pre style="margin: 0;">+<span id="LC27" class="line" lang="plaintext"><span class="idiff left right">a new encrypted cookie</span>.</span>
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<pre style="margin: 0;"> <span id="LC28" class="line" lang="plaintext"></span>
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<pre style="margin: 0;">-<span id="LC24" class="line" lang="plaintext">> When a client wants to establish a secure link with a server, what are the</span>
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<pre style="margin: 0;">-<span id="LC25" class="line" lang="plaintext">> first (say) three transactions among these agents? Expand from there. I'll</span>
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<pre style="margin: 0;">-<span id="LC26" class="line" lang="plaintext">> know that I understand enough to write code when I start correctly</span>
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<pre style="margin: 0;">-<span id="LC27" class="line" lang="plaintext">> anticipating steps before you have described them. This is unlikely to take</span>
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<pre style="margin: 0;">-<span id="LC28" class="line" lang="plaintext">> long.</span>
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<pre style="margin: 0;">+<span id="LC29" class="line" lang="plaintext">NTS should not assist DDoS amplification. All NTP responses</span>
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<pre style="margin: 0;">+<span id="LC30" class="line" lang="plaintext">are the same length as the request.</span>
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<pre style="margin: 0;">+<span id="LC31" class="line" lang="plaintext"></span>
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<pre style="margin: 0;">+<span id="LC32" class="line" lang="plaintext">== System Partitioning ==</span>
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<pre style="margin: 0;"> <span id="LC33" class="line" lang="plaintext"></span>
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<pre style="margin: 0;">-<span id="LC30" class="line" lang="plaintext">4 boxes. My ASCII art is weak. C for client, S for server.</span>
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<pre style="margin: 0;">+<span id="LC34" class="line" lang="plaintext">This picture is for discussion. The actual packaging may have</span>
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<pre style="margin: 0;">+<span id="LC35" class="line" lang="plaintext">both clients and both servers in one binary to simplify</span>
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<pre style="margin: 0;">+<span id="LC36" class="line" lang="plaintext">administration. It may be convenient to have them as</span>
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<pre style="margin: 0;">+<span id="LC37" class="line" lang="plaintext">separate programs for debugging.</span>
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<pre style="margin: 0;"> <span id="LC38" class="line" lang="plaintext"></span>
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<pre style="margin: 0;"> <span id="LC39" class="line" lang="plaintext"> Bravo Delta</span>
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<pre style="margin: 0;"> <span id="LC40" class="line" lang="plaintext"> NTS client ---------------- NTS server</span>
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<td class="line_content match " style="padding-left: 0.5em; padding-right: 0.5em; color: rgba(0,0,0,0.3);" bgcolor="#fafafa">@@ -35,18 +42,51 @@ Hal wrote:</td>
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<pre style="margin: 0;"> <span id="LC42" class="line" lang="plaintext"> Alpha Charlie</span>
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<pre style="margin: 0;"> <span id="LC43" class="line" lang="plaintext"> NTP client ---------------- NTP server</span>
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<pre style="margin: 0;"> <span id="LC44" class="line" lang="plaintext"></span>
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<pre style="margin: 0;">-<span id="LC38" class="line" lang="plaintext">NTS-C-NTS-S (Bravo to Delta and back) is our stuff in TLS over TCP.</span>
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<pre style="margin: 0;">-<span id="LC39" class="line" lang="plaintext">Everything we need to know is in the draft. It's pretty simple.</span>
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<pre style="margin: 0;">+<span id="LC45" class="line" lang="plaintext">NTP-C to NTS-C (Alpha to Bravo) is pretty simple.</span>
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<pre style="margin: 0;">+<span id="LC46" class="line" lang="plaintext"> NTP-C sends:</span>
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<pre style="margin: 0;">+<span id="LC47" class="line" lang="plaintext"> Host name of NTS-KE server</span>
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<pre style="margin: 0;">+<span id="LC48" class="line" lang="plaintext"> Optional preferred IP Address 4.1.7</span>
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<pre style="margin: 0;">+<span id="LC49" class="line" lang="plaintext"> A sorted list of AEAD algorithms 4.1.5</span>
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<pre style="margin: 0;">+<span id="LC50" class="line" lang="plaintext"> It gets back:</span>
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<pre style="margin: 0;">+<span id="LC51" class="line" lang="plaintext"> IP Address 4.1.7</span>
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<pre style="margin: 0;">+<span id="LC52" class="line" lang="plaintext"> 1 to 8 cookies 4.1.6</span>
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<pre style="margin: 0;">+<span id="LC53" class="line" lang="plaintext"> C2S and S2C encryption keys 4.2, 5.1</span>
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<pre style="margin: 0;">+<span id="LC54" class="line" lang="plaintext"> The selected AEAD algorithm 4.1.5</span>
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<pre style="margin: 0;">+<span id="LC55" class="line" lang="plaintext"></span>
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<pre style="margin: 0;">+<span id="LC56" class="line" lang="plaintext">For AEAD, we need libaes_siv.so, RFC 5297</span>
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<pre style="margin: 0;">+<span id="LC57" class="line" lang="plaintext">It's available, but not in OpenSSL yet</span>
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<pre style="margin: 0;">+<span id="LC58" class="line" lang="plaintext"></span>
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<pre style="margin: 0;">+<span id="LC59" class="line" lang="plaintext">NTS-C-NTS-S (Bravo to Delta) is mostly the above in TLS over TCP.</span>
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<pre style="margin: 0;">+<span id="LC60" class="line" lang="plaintext">NTS-C has to make the C2S and S2C keys. They are tangled up</span>
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<pre style="margin: 0;">+<span id="LC61" class="line" lang="plaintext">with TLS.</span>
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<pre style="margin: 0;">+<span id="LC62" class="line" lang="plaintext"></span>
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<pre style="margin: 0;">+<span id="LC63" class="line" lang="plaintext">NTP-S to NTS-S (Charlie to Delta) Is very low bandwidth.</span>
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<pre style="margin: 0;">+<span id="LC64" class="line" lang="plaintext">It's just the master key which is updated daily.</span>
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<pre style="margin: 0;">+<span id="LC65" class="line" lang="plaintext">NB: That channel has to be encrypted/protected.</span>
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<pre style="margin: 0;"> <span id="LC66" class="line" lang="plaintext"></span>
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<pre style="margin: 0;">-<span id="LC41" class="line" lang="plaintext">NTP-C to NTS-C (Bravo to Alpha) is pretty simple. NTP sends host</span>
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42
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<pre style="margin: 0;">-<span id="LC42" class="line" lang="plaintext">name, or something like that. It gets back an IP Address (maybe more</span>
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<pre style="margin: 0;">-<span id="LC43" class="line" lang="plaintext">than 1) and a bunch of cookies.</span>
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<pre style="margin: 0;">+<span id="LC67" class="line" lang="plaintext">We could also send the initial cookies over that channel</span>
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<pre style="margin: 0;">+<span id="LC68" class="line" lang="plaintext">so that only NTP-S knows the cookie format.</span>
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<pre style="margin: 0;"> <span id="LC69" class="line" lang="plaintext"></span>
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<pre style="margin: 0;">-<span id="LC45" class="line" lang="plaintext">NTP-S to NTS-S (Charlie to Delta) Is only an occasional ?????. I</span>
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46
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<pre style="margin: 0;">-<span id="LC46" class="line" lang="plaintext">don't have the right word handy. It's whatever key transfer or status</span>
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47
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<pre style="margin: 0;">-<span id="LC47" class="line" lang="plaintext">messages are required.</span>
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70
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<pre style="margin: 0;">+<span id="LC70" class="line" lang="plaintext">NTP-C to NTP-S (Alpha to Charlie)</span>
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48
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71
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<pre style="margin: 0;"> <span id="LC71" class="line" lang="plaintext"></span>
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49
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<pre style="margin: 0;">-<span id="LC49" class="line" lang="plaintext">NTP-C to NTP-S (Alpha to Charlie) is in the draft.</span>
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72
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<pre style="margin: 0;">+<span id="LC72" class="line" lang="plaintext">If all goes well (no lost packets) the client sends:</span>
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73
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<pre style="margin: 0;">+<span id="LC73" class="line" lang="plaintext"> The normal 48 byte NTP packet</span>
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74
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<pre style="margin: 0;">+<span id="LC74" class="line" lang="plaintext"> A 32 byte unique ID 5.3</span>
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75
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<pre style="margin: 0;">+<span id="LC75" class="line" lang="plaintext"> A cookie 5.4</span>
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76
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<pre style="margin: 0;">+<span id="LC76" class="line" lang="plaintext"> Authentication using C2S 5.6</span>
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77
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<pre style="margin: 0;">+<span id="LC77" class="line" lang="plaintext">It gets back the same, with the cookie replaced with a new cookie</span>
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78
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<pre style="margin: 0;">+<span id="LC78" class="line" lang="plaintext">and S2C used for authentication.</span>
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79
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<pre style="margin: 0;">+<span id="LC79" class="line" lang="plaintext"></span>
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80
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<pre style="margin: 0;">+<span id="LC80" class="line" lang="plaintext">All the extra data is in real NTP extensions. (No more of</span>
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81
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<pre style="margin: 0;">+<span id="LC81" class="line" lang="plaintext">the magic length kludgery for the curret shared key authentication.)</span>
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82
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<pre style="margin: 0;">+<span id="LC82" class="line" lang="plaintext"></span>
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83
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<pre style="margin: 0;">+<span id="LC83" class="line" lang="plaintext">If packets (and hence cookies) are lost, the client will include</span>
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84
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<pre style="margin: 0;">+<span id="LC84" class="line" lang="plaintext">a cookie-placeholder for each cookie it wants. 5.5</span>
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85
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<pre style="margin: 0;">+<span id="LC85" class="line" lang="plaintext">Those slots will be returned with new cookies.</span>
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86
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<pre style="margin: 0;">+<span id="LC86" class="line" lang="plaintext"></span>
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87
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<pre style="margin: 0;">+<span id="LC87" class="line" lang="plaintext">The AEAD algorithm is setup to encrypt some data as well as authenticate.</span>
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88
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<pre style="margin: 0;">+<span id="LC88" class="line" lang="plaintext">I don't know of any reason to use that. (Hal, Jan 14)</span>
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89
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<pre style="margin: 0;">+<span id="LC89" class="line" lang="plaintext">I think we need a nonce in there.</span>
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50
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90
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<pre style="margin: 0;"> <span id="LC90" class="line" lang="plaintext"></span>
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51
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91
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<pre style="margin: 0;"> <span id="LC91" class="line" lang="plaintext">== Key Generation and Usage ==</span>
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52
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92
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<pre style="margin: 0;"> <span id="LC92" class="line" lang="plaintext"></span>
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<td class="line_content match " style="padding-left: 0.5em; padding-right: 0.5em; color: rgba(0,0,0,0.3);" bgcolor="#fafafa">@@ -75,3 +115,14 @@ then encrypts the rest of the data using the c2s key. When the NTPD server</td>
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<pre style="margin: 0;"> <span id="LC115" class="line" lang="plaintext">recieves the packet it decrypts the cookie-blob using its Master Key, and</span>
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<pre style="margin: 0;"> <span id="LC116" class="line" lang="plaintext">extracts the c2s/s2c pair so it can decrypt the rest. The response packet</span>
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<pre style="margin: 0;"> <span id="LC117" class="line" lang="plaintext">is encrypted using the s2c key extracted from the cookie.</span>
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<pre style="margin: 0;">+<span id="LC118" class="line" lang="plaintext"></span>
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<pre style="margin: 0;">+<span id="LC119" class="line" lang="plaintext">== Odds and ends ==</span>
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<pre style="margin: 0;">+<span id="LC120" class="line" lang="plaintext"></span>
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<pre style="margin: 0;">+<span id="LC121" class="line" lang="plaintext">How many cookies should the NTP client try to hold? 8</span>
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<pre style="margin: 0;">+<span id="LC122" class="line" lang="plaintext"></span>
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<pre style="margin: 0;">+<span id="LC123" class="line" lang="plaintext">There is no hard reason, but it is what the server SHOULD return. 4.1.6</span>
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<pre style="margin: 0;">+<span id="LC124" class="line" lang="plaintext">It also matches the number of samples that ntpd remembers (the reach bit</span>
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<pre style="margin: 0;">+<span id="LC125" class="line" lang="plaintext">mask in ntpq/peers) and running out of responses is a good time to do</span>
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<pre style="margin: 0;">+<span id="LC126" class="line" lang="plaintext">special things like get a new pool server or get new cookies by running</span>
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<pre style="margin: 0;">+<span id="LC127" class="line" lang="plaintext">NTS-KE again.</span>
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<pre style="margin: 0;">+<span id="LC128" class="line" lang="plaintext"></span></pre>
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