Fedora 28 - python warnings

Gary E. Miller gem at rellim.com
Fri May 11 22:06:37 UTC 2018

Yo Richard!

On Fri, 11 May 2018 16:34:55 -0500
Richard Laager via devel <devel at ntpsec.org> wrote:

> > 'perl' only a pointer to the current perl.  
> That's certainly not true everywhere. I have an out-of-the-box Perl
> setup from Ubuntu and I have an actual perl at /usr/bin/perl:

Odd, my Ubuntu 16.04, perl is a link.  Not sure why your Ubuntu is
not setup the standard Ubuntu way.  But that is getting off topic.

> $ ls -l /usr/bin/perl
> -rwxr-xr-x 2 root root 1.9M Apr  5 07:48 /usr/bin/perl

Notice the 2?  That means it is a hard link.

> >> You are proposing that:
> >>   /usr/bin/env python foo
> >> be equivalent to (for example):
> >>   /usr/bin/python3 foo  
> > 
> > Uh, no.  Please do not put words in my mouth.  
> I'm not putting words in your mouth. That's literally what you said:

And rewording it to change the context.
>  On 05/11/2018 12:00 PM, Gary E. Miller via devel wrote:
>  > Better to fix '/usr/bin/env python' to return python3
>  > (as it should) and then all properly written python programs will
>  > work.  
> You very clearly stated that "/usr/bin/env python" should run
> ("return") python3. That is the position I am responding to.

Yes, that is what I said, but that is not equivalent to:
    /usr/bin/python3 foo  

That is to confuse run time with install time.  See the "Key point"
as described in the Python doc on this subject.

> My /usr/bin/env from GNU coreutils is behaving as env always has, is
> not broken, and does not need to be fixed.

Never said that.  Nor do I suggest that env was ever an issue.

> When I pass it "python",
> it runs something named "python", or if that does not exist, gives an
> error.

Yup.  We agree.  Not sure why you digress there?

> > $ which python
> > /usr/bin/python  
> This contracts what you said here:
> On 05/11/2018, 13:25:35 PM, Gary E. Miller via devel wrote:
>  > Actually, on Gentoo, and most other distro I use: NOTHING is
>  > installed as 'python'.  
> You actually do have something installed as python.

OK, sorry I did not go into excruciating detail.  But since you keep
misunderstanding what I say...   I have something installed
there, it is just not a python interpreter.   It is the python loader
that comes from the Python source code.  It is exactly as the BDFL
intended it.

> > $ /usr/bin/env python --version
> > Python 2.7.14  
> So your /usr/bin/env python runs python, exactly as expected. It does
> not run python3 as you proposed it should.

Uh?  Did you miss the part later on where it DID run Python3 as intended?
I suggest you re-read my example more closely.

> Your python is a symlink to python-exec2c which then implements some
> policy as to which python to run, which might be Python 2 or might be
> Python 3.

Uh, not mine.  That is as Python designed it, documented it, and
shipped it.  You don't like it, take it up with the Python folks.

> That is very much not the same thing as
> "fix[ing] /usr/bin/env python to [run] python3" as you proposed.

Uh, no.  Not my proposal.  My proposal is to, no more, and no less,
install Python as the Python people designed it, documented and
ship it.

> If your argument is actually, "Distros should having a Python selector
> utility in place as /usr/bin/python, similar to what Gentoo does.",

Uh, no.  Not my proposal.  My argument is to, no more, and no less,
install Python as the Python people designed it, documented and ship it.

> I'm happy to discuss that for a bit once we
> agree that my /usr/bin/env is not broken.

Never disagreed on that env was broken.  My disagreement is the proposed
changes to NTPsec python code and/or installation to change it from
conforming to the how the Python people tell us our Python code should
look like.  Ain't broke, don't fix it.

Gary E. Miller Rellim 109 NW Wilmington Ave., Suite E, Bend, OR 97703
	gem at rellim.com  Tel:+1 541 382 8588

	    Veritas liberabit vos. -- Quid est veritas?
    "If you can’t measure it, you can’t improve it." - Lord Kelvin
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